Nursing Uncharted Ep. 98 -Navigating the New Landscape of Travel Nursing
In this episode of Nursing Uncharted, we explore the evolving world of travel nursing, with a spotlight on the recruitment process and the lasting effects of COVID-19 on nursing demand. Bianca Otero, a Director of Recruitment at AMN Healthcare, shares her expertise on high-need contracts, the critical role of compensation, and the dynamics of the nurse-recruiter relationship. The conversation highlights the importance of quality nursing care, the unique challenges faced by travel nurses, and the shifting priorities in the nursing profession as it adapts to a post-COVID landscape.
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We Discuss
00:00 Introduction to Travel Nursing and Recruitment
01:02 The Impact of COVID-19 on Nursing Demand
04:10 Understanding High-Need Contracts
06:53 The Role of Recruitment in Filling Nursing Gaps
10:46 Compensation and Its Influence on Travel Nursing
14:52 The Importance of Patient Care in Recruitment
19:03 Building Relationships Between Nurses and Recruiters
23:07 Quality vs. Quantity in Travel Nursing
27:03 Navigating Challenges in Travel Nursing
31:00 The Future of Travel Nursing Post-COVID
34:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00.12)
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Nursing Uncharted. Last episode was my solo episode and today I'm back with my guests and I can't tell you how excited I am. So today is a special episode and I think it's important because we don't really as travel nurses understand all of the back work that our recruitment team does for us. So I am so happy to welcome my next guest.
Miss Bianca. So just tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
well, hi, Anne. Hello. Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm Bianca Otero and I am a director of recruitment on the travel side. So I have a team that reports to me of recruiters and then we have our recruitment assistants that support that we support as well. And then our team that really sources our leads. So a little bit of everything under me.
I've been here for eight years and it's been such a journey. think the ebbs and flows of through COVID, post-COVID, all of the things, it has been such a journey and just navigating this market has been interesting. So I'm really excited to talk about it a little bit.
Yeah, and I think you really hit the nail on the head there saying like before COVID, after COVID and how things change and they're still changing. Totally. just, you know, something that really prompted this episode were the high need contracts and that, you know, during COVID obviously everything was a high need at that point, you know, but now we're really kind of getting back to normal for what normal is now, I guess. And, you know, there are those
Speaker 1 (01:46.894)
high need contracts. And I think that it's good to kind of dive into that a little bit and talk about what that looks like from the facility to, you know, AMN and then how that works with recruitment that finally gets the travel nurses into those assignments. So I know that we had talked previously and we talk about a high need specialty that kind of stands out year round and that being labor and delivery. Is that correct?
I think when we think about high need, right, there's typically five to six specialties that dabble in on those top five. You think of your ICUs, your telemetries, your ORs, MedSurg, but L &D has been just slightly different. It's been so different. It has been very consistent throughout the year, which for anyone that was here in the past,
That was not the case. It was very much isolated to seasonality of the year where we had maternal child health season, which typically was about from anywhere in March, April through October. So those were, that was your seasonality. And now LND is consistent. is January all the way through December. There are no down points with it and the demand continues to grow.
which is incredibly interesting and we'll get into a little bit more of what we work through.
Yeah, it's so interesting because this I can kind of relate to labor and delivery. I've never done L &D specifically, but as a NICU nurse, know, that if the needs are high in L &D, then the needs kind of trickle down into the need of what I do because, you know, unfortunately, if there's a higher delivery, the more deliveries are happening.
Speaker 1 (03:42.882)
you're going to see babies that maybe need to enter my realm a little bit. it gets me excited because it gives me more opportunities too. you know, I definitely see on the market on my side, it always says like L &D. And when I got into travel nursing, it's like six years. I'm coming up on my six year anniversary. Congrats. Thanks. One of the first conversations I had with my recruiter was we're getting into that
baby season, you know, and those high needs. And now, like you said, it's all the time. Like, it's year round. Do you, like, from the recruitment side, do you have insight on why that is? you know, do you have any ideas?
I think there's, can speculate a little bit in certain ways, right? And of course, you're going to have some data, but I think there's multiple factors in it. LND is so special. I think it's a special nurse. It's a nurse that is really attached to the patient. And I do think that right now we're seeing clinicians really want to be in that perm position for LND.
But then you think a little bit of the staffing shortages, right? And we experience it throughout and we continue to experience it. But I think of those clinicians that may be retiring, right? Or they are going through the burnout and post-COVID, because that was a lot for everyone. So I think there's a little bit of awe and the supply piece is a little bit challenging. The demand is there. We have the demand that...
facilities need nurses desperately, but then it's a supply. So thinking about from that recruitment lens, we do everything possible to really try and fill those needs, whether it's reaching out via email, text, really curating messaging to support the facility's needs and really highlight those needs to the clinicians is really important. But when I'm just thinking of
Speaker 2 (05:51.4)
why there is a little bit of that uptick in demand. I'd bring it back to maybe a little bit of the shortages and maybe there's a piece of compensation that is also correlated to it. So post COVID, you're getting a little bit of those clinicians that want that really high pay and we have bright sized slightly. think compensation, think the supply
and I think there's a little bit of a stopover shortage. So, company shovel.
Yeah, something that really stood out to me is when you said the relationship that nurses have with the L &D patients. It is a different relationship than a lot of the other patient populations. You're basically the best friend during one of the scariest but exciting times of someone's life. And that does maybe push someone to not want to do that transiently. And maybe, you know,
keep them stuck in that position. So I think that was a really interesting way to look at that because I didn't really think of it that way, you know, and it does form a different relationship than some other specialties.
Yeah, and I think you're so close to it, right? So you're in that NICU position, but I think of the L &D, like it's the patient, it's the baby that's coming through, and then the family. It's a little bit of everything when you're in that position. So to your point, the transient, see a travel position may not be something that someone is interested in really being able to be there as a perm staff and at a facility, maybe something that is more comfortable to them. So.
Speaker 2 (07:35.95)
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Yeah. So when you get these, and it's not always L &D, but I know that that's been a big focus over the past couple of years. But what does that look like from the company side? When the facilities are like, we need this. Where do you guys start? What does that look like?
think it's at that point we think all hands on deck. How are we going to fill the needs, right? Because when we think of a need, it's not only necessarily like an order. And I think that can sometimes be the perception that it's the demand, it's the order, but like, no, there's patients and units sometimes that are either opening or closing to support patient care. So I think we have to assess one.
What does that demand look like? What is happening at the facility? What are the circumstances that they're going through? Are they building a new tower to support more? Is it because they're closing a unit because they don't have enough staff to support? So just really depending on the urgency behind the need, which ultimately is always going to stem from that patient care. So we would take a look at that. And then it really is all hands on deck. We pull in
Almost every single person we pull in our recruitment specialist team that really source leads to come into the company. So they're bringing in the applications to the company. get a list consistently of what is that high need. If it's a specific facility and maybe they are being really strategic with their power hours and really focusing on that specific specialty for X amount of time. And then.
Speaker 2 (09:19.842)
down the funnel, we think of really how are we setting the pay competitively in this market to attract supply. And I think that is maybe the most challenging piece. Like what is that amount? in every location, it's different. Every facility is different. Whether a facility is a teaching hospital, whether it's a more challenging facility to work with.
due to the nurse to patient ratios. So really making sure that that compensation is set and then looking at the recruiters, right? So they're the frontline after all of these other cases where they're calling all of the clinicians and we need to make sure they know what they're talking about. So educating them on what's exactly happening at that facility, at the unit, why we're asking them to drop everything and focus on certain things.
We do like, we'll do a stand up huddle, right? If something is really urgent, we'll do a stand up huddle with all of recruitment, making sure they have every single detail so that they can support the needs and that they can really make sure that we are attracting supply that matches the need of the client. And I think that's the big piece, right? Like we can provide clinician after clinician after clinician, but really making sure that they are the perfect fit.
for both the clinician and the nurse, we want them to have a really good experience or at least know what they're walking into when they get there. And then for the client as well, do they have the skillset to hit the ground running while they're there? So then at that point, the recruiters are well on their way making the dials, emails, texts that I know all the nurses love. We love them. We love them. And so...
They're making all of their calls really with the intent to fill the need. I think that's in a nutshell really what happens on our end. Obviously there's a lot of other complexities that I simplified right now.
Speaker 1 (11:28.206)
simplify anything. Like I'm sitting here like, my gosh, like we had this conversation, you know, a couple weeks ago and I was like, yeah, like I totally get it. You hit on so many things that I'm just like, wait, what? Like, and being from, I mean, I shared my experience with you because I was on an assignment at the time and it was, you know, full disclosure, not the, not the best of the best assignments that I've been on. And the big thing was like compensation for where it was.
I didn't work in a safe place. It was hard to find housing in a safe place. And the hospital opened a brand new hospital. you know, it was like all of those factors play into the compensation. And compensation isn't everything. I don't really want to focus on that because that is like my pet peeve as a travel nurse. And, you know, since being here over the years, I've seen it change. And that is like my biggest like that'll get me going. But
You know, it does influence, like you can't fill a need in a place like I worked because I couldn't safely live without being compensated for that, you know, for that contract. And that does play a toll on it. So, you know, if you're if you're going to, you know, a bougie hospital living in, you know, a nice place, you know, you think, I want I want this money for this pay. But
It's almost like I don't want to say hazard pay, it kind of it kind of is in a way like you you have to make sure that when you're going, you know, you're traveling away by yourself most of the time. Like there are friends that travel together, partners that travel together. But a lot of this you're doing on your own and you need to make sure that you feel safe and that you can afford to work that contract. So it's it was nice to hear that all of that is taking into consideration.
when those packages are being presented. And the facilities have to understand that too. I mean, the facility that I worked at, their nurses got paid more than any other hospital in the area because of where they worked. So they understand that as well. But you simplified it in a way that yes, we can now understand it. I learned a lot from even just what you said and we have spoken before. So I love that we're explaining that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:40.748)
You
Speaker 1 (13:54.474)
more so nurses understand why.
differs from location to location to what you're saying, right? You've been doing this for six years, so you better, like you know it better than I do. When it is, it's going to vary from location to location, from facility to facility, from start date to start date. If I call you and I'm like, Anne, I need you to be here in a week, your compensation is going to be a rapid response.
And if I'm asking you to be here in two months, your rate might be a little bit different because we have more time to plan. So that's where you're getting a little bit of the variation in that compensation, even from contract to contract location. So it is interesting that all of the things that we have to take a look at. then sometimes when we aren't able to fill that need, right, then we have to take
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:54.496)
all of the things back to the client and like, let's revisit what is happening or do we leverage our marketing team or what other levers are we pulling at that point to make sure that we do fill it because it is critical, right? Like it's not only about that compensation, it's critical that we have clinicians at bedside. And that's the most important thing. So I think we get a little bit stuck in the minutia of the compensation and all these other things, but
Ultimately, I have to always bring it back to patient care and even myself. Sometimes I get busy. You don't think about it for a second and then you think about it for a lot more, just how important it is.
And as a travel nurse, just to kind of go back, I remember one of my very first contracts, I took care of a baby. And in the NICU, if people listening know what the NICU is, some of these babies are in the NICU. We celebrate 100-day birthdays. They're in there for a long time. But they always leave us. The patients always leave. They're discharged. I've never left a patient before. And that's a different feeling of like,
You know, and I still to this day drink my water out of the cup that was gifted to me by a family and they begged me to stay. They're like, please don't leave me. And that was one of the hardest things that I ever had to do. And that's when travel nursing was really kind of put into perspective is you're there transiently. And, you know, it has influenced me extending contracts because of seeing
that they need the help. They need the people there and it may not be the best assignment that you're on, but as nurses, I can speak for myself and I can speak for my friends that are nurses. We're empathetic people and we care and money is great, but we also know that patients deserve fair, equal and amazing care. And if we're someplace that we don't see that,
Speaker 1 (17:03.52)
we may make some sacrifices to make sure that that doesn't change after we leave. And yeah, and that, and I think that that's where the money isn't everything comes from. And we say that and it's such like a, okay, money's not everything, but like, what does that really mean? And it just made me think of that story of leaving a family that you've bonded with, that you've cultivated a relationship. I mean, I still, I still have...
like have connection with this family. And like I said, I still use the water bottle that she had made for me. It was custom, like my name's on it. And, you know, it's just those special things really push me to be the nurse that I am. And it pushes me to be better. And it does influence where you might work. And I think that that's OK. You know, I don't think we should sacrifice everything just because we feel bad or whatever. But I do think that it does play a part in
the decisions we make as travelers. And we need to remember it's not always about the dollar signs. Like dollars are good and I sometimes say to myself like money talks, but it's not everything.
I feel like your story gave me a little bit of like the chills because it's I don't know, it's so sweet. I think those are the things that like make it come full circle. And I think we hear those stories and whenever our clinicians tell us these stories and we see just the Daisy awards that they get based on their impact, then it truly just puts things into perspective sometimes where...
in an industry where compensation is very highly spoken about and post-COVID really changed that for us. Pre-COVID, it wasn't so much, right? think when I think of pre-COVID, I think of the experience, you're building your resume, you're traveling for fun. When I was a recruiter, I had seven clinicians come out from Tennessee out to San Diego.
Speaker 2 (19:05.006)
And it was seven of them, which is kind of crazy. And they were a travel altogether. Usually you have like a travel each other. Yeah. They all came from Tennessee out to San Diego. They did it for the experience. Like half of them went to other locations. I know one of them, her and I became friends through the time, but she's still located in San Diego. And it was really driven by experience, traveling with your friends.
building that resume. like really seeing if you're going to have a Johns Hopkins on your resume or Stanford or NYP, a really reputable hospital system, MGB, I think of so many, there's so many great ones out there. And that was really the driving force, right? To adventure, to have a good time. Freedom, you don't have to, you have, you can change every 13 weeks or you can extend.
like
Speaker 2 (20:04.44)
to the freedom piece, right? Like you're not stuck there, but through COVID that shifted a little bit. And now we're trying to bring it back where it is more so driven by those experiences, which bring, think all of us so much more joy than always compensation conversations, but it's still, we can't ignore that it's a conversation that needs to be
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it just with I mean, we both live in San Diego. It's expensive. So we have to make sure the jobs we take, especially like for traveling, I have to like double expenses. Right. So I have to make sure I can pay my rent here and also afford to live where I'm going to be. So it does. It does definitely drive some component of it. And I don't want to ignore that. But I I just I want to get back to
like the videos that I made for like how I even ended up here in the first place is I would do small little social media things for AMN because my recruiter mentioned me. And I remember making this video of like, just take a risk. It's worth it. And it was before COVID. So it's like, my gosh, just to like.
think like why I did it and I think of my pay package in San Diego, but I came from Pennsylvania. So I was making in two weeks in Pennsylvania what I made in one week. And we need to like remember that because it's still traveling still is more than what you're than what you're making most of the time. So, you know, as much as we want those COVID rates, it's we need to get back to reality COVID is gone. People have made comments like we need another COVID. I need that money again.
It's just not sustainable. Right? can't sustain that. Trust me. think anybody that was in this industry, recruiter, client, nurse, mean, COVID was fruitful in many ways, in many ways regarding compensation, but also presented insane challenges. So we can keep that in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:07.266)
Yeah. We don't want that back.
Yeah. my gosh. Well, I'm glad that we had that conversation. It's something that we definitely dove into the first time talking. And it's hard because you know, I don't want to come off like preachy to be like money isn't everything. But I think that, you know, that story that just came to mind, I think if we really as travel nurses all have a story that can we can relate to in that aspect. You know, we may have a patient that on our very last day gets admitted and then we leave them. And that's a that's a weird feeling.
Because that's not the norm. It's the other way around. And that's a shift with traveling compared to being a staff nurse. But let's get back to fulfilling those needs. And the biggest complaint that I hear is, why do I keep getting these phone calls? And it comes down to the needs that need to be fulfilled. But why? Not because AMN needs to...
check a box. It's because there are patients in hospital systems that are not getting the care that they deserve. So what, I mean, I guess I kind of said it, but like from your aspect, why do those phone calls happen or like, what is the purpose of that? And what does that?
So there.
Speaker 2 (23:28.902)
I yeah, I always tell my team, like, it's not a call just to make a call, right? Like, that is not a useful way to conduct your day. Like, that's a waste of time. It really is to be intentional. It's to be intentional to the locations that need the support the most. And then obviously, I mean, we have thousands of boarders. So we have to prioritize.
certain things, but at the same time, it all is going to come back to that patient care. there's an example that recently happened. There's an EMR project, which is an Electronical Medical Record project. And nurses typically love that. When they happen, what it is, is they have all their perm stuff, they get to learn a new system and they bring in nurses with already that chart-load system experience. so...
something came up in Florida and that just opened up. So really making sure that with those like transitions of this system or this project going up, right? It's critical that we fill the needs so that their nurses can go learn the targeting system, how they need to move forward. And so maybe that's the call that's coming out or maybe there's a potential.
strike or maybe it's getting ready for a strike or there are so many reasons why. So I think the message I do want to get across is that we're not making calls and dials and emails and texts and all of the things that you guys receive just for fun. As much as I would love to say it's just for fun, it's not. is with the intentionality of getting clinicians
booked in the locations that make most sense for both. I the clinicians to have a great experience. I want the client to get their needs filled. And then in a timely manner. So sometimes there's urgency behind different things, right? If someone says a clinician canceled their contract, we need a backfill, there might be a little bit more urgency behind that than something that's further out. So it really, there's multiple factors that
Speaker 2 (25:53.782)
really lie in to the reason of why we're giving you guys all a call and email and texts. And I think what we do know is travel nursing is a competitive work. Right. So we're also trying to make sure that we stand out amongst the rest of our fellow competitors. And not in a negative way, right. But
We want to make sure that AMN is capable of supplying our clients with clinicians. And so that's really where it does stem from at the end of the day. It's that patient care. And I know, I think we keep going back to that, but that's truly what, those calls are being made.
It is. something we talked about, actually this was just said to me because I started a new assignment right after the one that I was on. And you know, it's not, maybe I shouldn't say this, but it's not with AMN. And there's just so many differences and I would just talk about the differences. And I know that AMN has not supplied this hospital.
Yeah
Speaker 1 (27:04.95)
in the past either, but what was said by my preceptor was so shocking to me is that there were nurses, they'd been burned so many times because nurses were placed in the NICU with like fabricated experience. so the references.
no.
There was this girl gave me this exam. I didn't even ask for it. She just presented this. God. I'm like, I've been a nurse for so long. Why am I getting this intensive an orientation? And it's because this facility has been burned. And the nurse had never worked in the unit, in the specialty. And her reference was a manager that she worked under as a student.
and they never called to do the background to find out until the facility asked specifically for the references, then they called the references and the reference was like, no, I never worked with her. She was a student. like, and I just think about, you know, the quality of travel nurses with AMN, there is that emphasis that you're placing a nurse with the appropriate experience.
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (28:19.436)
with the appropriate background check, not background check, criminal background check, but like experience so that those situations don't happen. I mean, other than this and one other contract, I've been exclusive with AMN and I have never heard something like that. You hear stories like, yeah, that NERF travel nurses talk about. I'm like, yeah, right. And then to have someone tell me that that happened, I'm like, that's insane. Like, how can you? And like, and then you think like as a nurse, why would you do that?
Karen there.
Speaker 1 (28:49.164)
Why would you take a contract when you didn't know like what you were doing?
Mm-mm.
think there's like probably a little bit of like desperation in certain areas, right? But I do think to like what you're saying right now, Ammon, I will say there are times that we are more conservative in what we place at a facility and we don't throw spaghetti at a wall and see what's gonna stick. We really do hide ourselves and our clinical team is...
top-notch they really Make sure that a recruiter is gonna only know so much right? We don't have that clinical background. So We are gonna look at your skills checklist. We're gonna look at your VI interview We're gonna look at certain things but like our clinical team they are all clinicians that have worked bedside that have so much experience and they are really like who we loon to
So that situation's like what you just stated, never happened under our watch. Because that's liability. Like imagine you're at the patient and you don't know who's helping you. So that's such a liability piece where AMN, sometimes we may get frustrated here and there. like, we want them to go there and this clinician is perfect and this clinician wants to go there. And they're like, well, what's...
Speaker 2 (30:17.666)
Let's take a step back and let's really look at the clinical experience. Let's look at what they stated that they have experience with. Let's look at the unit, when the unit description that that facility is giving us and trusting us with so that we are making it that perfect match for all involved. So I will say our quality is very, very, very solid. We pride ourselves in that. And I think quality sometimes is good.
I know the quantity piece is important. know quantity is important and I know we want to be able to fill every order. That's always our intention as long as all the supply is there, right? But quality is always going to be top of mind through and through.
Yeah. And I think that for me, this stood out because like NICU contracts are not, they're very competitive from what I feel. I pride myself in my resume. have great experience and I have even not gotten jobs and it's, it's like, it's cutthroat. It really is. So to hear a story like that, when I know that it's not about quantity, that there should have been a focus on making sure that you're putting someone in there and
Have
Speaker 1 (31:32.31)
You know, that being said, going back to when I started this, took, I didn't get the first travel job that I applied for because they didn't want first time travelers. You needed, at that time, you needed a minimum of two years experience in that specialty. Now I'm working like at my, not even a travel job. I ran into a nurse that had been a nurse for a year and that was her very first travel assignment. And I'm like, what?
I had eight years experience trying to get a travel job and I couldn't get one because they didn't want a first time traveler. So that's shifted a lot and that's from COVID because, and it's like, where did that happen? And I'm not saying that if you have one year experience, you're not a good nurse. I think people can be phenomenal right off the bat, but experience and growth.
to put yourself in a position of having to basically fly off a two days of orientation, you kind of have to take a step back and it's like, yeah, you really want to travel, but we need to keep the idea of what is best for the patients. And these are life and death situations. is your skill set appropriate for those situations? And that's when I think that money prioritizes over what is best from my standpoint.
orientation.
Speaker 1 (32:58.978)
from like a nurse's standpoint. you know, that's just something that has changed as well. And I think that I mean, I'm not saying this because I do this podcast. I do trust AMN and I trust that they're doing the background checks that they need to do. And I feel safe when I'm on assignment. And when I'm on an assignment, that is an exclusive AMN contract. And I know that all those other nurses are AMN nurses. I see the quality.
of nursing care that is provided.
It's so interesting to hear it from a nursing perspective. So like, cause you, you've been on contracts through AMN and contracts not, and I think that's typical, right? Like I think AMN wants to be able to, and of course we want to fill in all of your needs, but to your point, right? There are exclusives that another competitor is going to have that we don't have and vice versa. It's very, it's very normal.
I mean, think we need to normalize that. Or it's real guilty, but yeah. I know. It's okay. It's okay. I know. I think there might be a little bit of push and pull on that topic from both ends, but I think we have to be okay with that. So it is interesting to hear from your perspective that when you get on the unit, what your experiences with those that surround you, because those are your counterparts. That's who you're going to work with on a daily basis.
So it's a good reminder for us, right? And I can take that back to my teams where it's like, when we do place them, this is the experience that they are receiving. So that when we do get pushed back in those scenarios where we really want that clinician to go there and clinical is like, no, it's not going to happen. Based on the skillset, we have to trust and we have to trust that it is for the betterment of everyone involved. And we do trust.
Speaker 2 (34:53.589)
Like I said, our clinical team is top notch. They're a great partner and they really definitely help us navigate through where can we place someone and where can't we. So the quality piece is great.
Yeah. And just from like a nurse, like for the nurses listening out there, this is right at the top of my mind is this last assignment, the one that Bianca, you and I had talked about. We were as travelers, we were put into a really difficult situation, like really difficult in every aspect of that word. And those nurses, I will tell you, I trusted them with everything.
I mean, they were some of the best nurses I have ever worked with. And we literally have a text group with 10 of us that like, just like, and we were together two weeks, like, and really only working together for six days. And that's how much we had to rely on each other. And the skill set of these nurses blew my mind. And I knew that if I didn't, you know, I'm confident in what I do and I know what I know.
But like if I didn't know something, I would be like, hey, what about this? And they're like, yeah, what if you do it this way? And I was just like, as a traveler, we rely on each other. We're kind of like the safe place because we're not always welcomed by the staff. we can't go, even if it's like a hospital policy, obviously we can do our best, but sometimes we have to go ask the charge nurse, whatever. But like for clinical things, we kind of have to, we have to trust who we go to. And sometimes that's other travelers. And if you can't,
trust the other travelers that you're with, that's a terrifying situation to be in. And I am so grateful for the experience I had, even though it was not the best. I learned a lot and I met some really amazing nurses that I would literally sign to be a reference for them any day. And they were all AMN travelers. So, yeah, that just really puts into perspective the effort. And that was like a rapid response too. even rapid need.
Speaker 1 (36:59.766)
was still a quality nurse, nurses that were placed there.
I think sometimes even more so, right? Like knowing that it is going to be a challenging situation, like that may not be where we're going to send that one year traveler, that clinician that has one year of experience. It's likely not, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it's really interesting and it's cool to hear that through a challenging situation, a very challenging situations, you guys were able to lean on each other and make those solid relationships.
in such a short period of time. Right. And I think even from a recruiter perspective, sometimes we forget certain things like that. And then the other piece that I just think of like that relationship piece with our clinicians, right. And just thinking of the relationship, because you said like you have those tight knit relationships with the clinicians when you're on assignment, you should also have a tight knit relationship with the recruiter that you're on assignment with as well.
And so I just love hearing that story. And it's a good reminder to also make sure that while you're trampling, you are making those really strong relationships with your recruiters so that they know where to place you and what you're looking for. And if you value that type of environment, speak up, let us know. We can navigate things a little bit easier, but what we do know in a relationship, takes more than one. mean, it takes a little bit of a combination of both.
And a recruiter is just going to tell you what we have, what's going to happen. And then it's also responsibility from our clinicians to tell us kind of what they're looking for in that experience. So that even if you are in a challenging place, you can't have those takeaways that are positive and we'll teach you something for that next travel contract. Or if you decide to extend because you learned it so much, even though it's challenging, then you can also do that. So just...
Speaker 2 (39:00.416)
Really thank you about that piece.
Yeah, and I'm glad you said that because it does come down. I've said this. been very I say I'm very lucky that, you know, I'm on my third recruiter and not because I chose that. It's just because of advancements in the company or life advancements, whatever it may be. But I've had and I've talked about this on previous episodes. I've I've had good relationships with all of them. You know, and it and it really makes a difference when you're on assignment. So I always encourage.
nurses that if they don't feel comfortable, if they don't really trust their recruiter, it's okay to like, maybe facilitate a different relationship elsewhere because we don't always get along. Our personalities are personalities, but you have to trust who you're working for. And yes, you're working for AMN, but you're working with your recruiter and that's who's going to help you succeed in this company. This is what's going to get you jobs in the future.
So you have to make sure that you invest in each other in that relationship. And that means answering the phone. Even if it's like, no, I don't want to go on that contract. Saying no is okay because that shows that that is not something that you want to do in the future. And then you won't get bugged with all these phone calls in the future.
And I think even to that point, it's if your recruiter is doing something that you may not necessarily agree with, also call them out. Like none of us are going to get better with someone just being like, I want a new recruiter. And I'm like, okay, well, help me understand why. Right. And then they're like, well, I like them. I'm like, okay, well, then give me a why. And if it is communication or their style of communication, I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 2 (40:46.296)
have you had that conversation with the recruiter? you had given them the opportunity to make things right? I think the tricky part of being a recruiter is every clinician works so differently. Someone wants a best friend that they want to talk to every single day while they're on assignment. And then another clinician wants to hear from you maybe once every two weeks or maybe not at all unless there is...
something that comes up on assignment, whether it's payroll, whatever the reason is, insert it. But I do think it's be fair, be honest, be transparent. No one is perfect. But it does take that mutual respect between the clinician and the recruiter to really have those tough conversations. If you don't respect someone and you don't trust them very much, you're not going to be...
so willing to have that conversation, but I definitely always challenge both our recruiters and then also our clinicians. Like, you guys talked about this? Because it seems like there's a little bit of a disconnect and they're like, well, no. I'm like, okay, well, let's revisit and you have my direct line. If something goes wrong, you can call me, but let's give it another try. I think having... Let's find a medium ground, but...
at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (42:10.76)
not taking away that that relationship.
Yeah, yeah, I love it. think, I really think we dove into a lot more than what I was expecting. I appreciate, I like talking to you to be completely honest. I feel that we get into these difficult conversations, but we each brought something to the table that we got our point across without being like, don't do this, you know, like it's, you know, just setting those reminders for.
for everyone. I think that recruiters can get something out of listening to this conversation. And nurses will definitely get an understanding of what it's like from AMN's side and then from the recruiter's side and from the director's side. There's so many levels of everything that as a travel nurse you don't understand. And I maybe have a little bit more insight because I'm having these conversations with you guys a little bit more, but that's why I want.
people to understand. It's not secrets. not keeping things. No one's keeping things from each other. This needs to be a communication. This needs to be a relationship. having those difficult conversations will help to make you feel comfortable on assignment and comfortable taking the pay package that maybe you didn't expect to take. And I think that just understanding it and asking those questions is what's going to get this back to where
it used to be.
Speaker 2 (43:39.566)
And I think it's getting there, right? I do, I wholeheartedly feel like we, and I feel like you and I can probably talk for forever. So I have the exact same mutual sentiment regarding chatting with you. It's always so fun. Last time we were like, we had a podcast before the podcast. But we always have so much fun with it. But I do think like we, I do wholeheartedly think that we are trying to find our new normal.
You did?
Speaker 2 (44:08.296)
And the waters were muddied a lot during COVID. And we're in a place where we're trying to identify exactly what that normal does look like, but it's getting there. I wholeheartedly and confidently feel like it's getting there. Demand is stabilizing, which is really nice to see in the market. You know, we have a flu season this year. We have a winter season this year, which...
In years past, we'd be like winter orders and wasn't really there. And in years past, it didn't look as normalized as it is now. So I do think we are in a place where we're evolving a lot. We're learning a ton. Anyone that's in this industry is learning that we need tech to partner with us throughout it. And I think that can...
have an episode of its own is the technology piece. Right? The tech. So I think the industry has evolved so much and we're continuously evolving with politics and political things that are happening in the world and just the world overall and the cost of living and setting the rates correctly. So we really are finding our true normalization.
Good ideas, I agree with that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:34.294)
And it feels good. I think it feels good as a company and I'm sure it feels good for our recruiters as well. So it's not so rollercoasterish where you're like having these peaks of demand and then cancellations and then back and forth. Like we are seeing that stabilization, which is good as an industry for both the clinicians and the facilities and the recruiters for everyone.
Yeah, and I like that. think, you know, you're getting back to a new normal. And I think that that's a great way to say it. you know, I think you, I think your end of things sees that a little bit more than individual clinicians, because we're just focusing on ourselves. But to hear that you're seeing that, I think is encouraging. And I think we should all take that. Like, everyone listening should take that in and understand that, you know, things are changing, but it's
probably for the good at this point. And just like medicine, every day things change and we need to go with the flow and continue at the end of the day keeping patient care number one. And that's why we're all here.
Yeah. Yeah. Hit the nail on the idle talent. think we could wrap it up with that.
I think so too. thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for having this conversation. I'm glad I got to meet you. And hopefully we run into each other in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (46:57.806)
I'm sure we will. We can figure that out. It's been such a pleasure and I appreciate you so much.
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:10.242)
Thank you for tuning into Nursing Uncharted. You can learn more about this episode and our show on our website at amnhalthcare.com. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend and subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast platform. You can also find show updates and nursing opportunities on our Instagram at amnnurse. Special thanks to AMN Health Care for making this show possible.
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